Hello everyone,

It’s me, your friendly neighbourhood Jaz. In September of last year I reviewed one of my favourite fiction podcasts on my blog. Half a day later, I was shrieking so hard it spooked the dogs. You see, the Podcastle crew had enthusiastically retweeted my blog.

So after I was done swooning, I grabbed the dragon by the talons, and asked them if they’d enjoy some more signal-boostings. In the form of an INKterview, of course! And they agreed!

The next shriek cracked the window panes. After the INKlings’ ears stopped ringing and they could understand what I was saying again, I cracked the whip over them and set them to work coming up with some good questions to lay at the feet of the Podcastle dragon and his underlings.

Co-editors Jen R. Albert and Cherae Clark, and host and assistant editor Setsu Uzume were kind enough to reply to our questions and Bex and I very much enjoyed sneaking a peek at their answers.

Braving the Dragon's Lair: An INKterview with the PodCastle Editors

INK: How did the dragon find you?

• Setsu: Pseudopod was the first short fiction market I’d ever heard of. I made a bunch of stupid jokes in their Facebook fan group, asked the editors if they needed assistance, and they directed me to Cast of Wonders. While slushing for CoW, PodCastle invited me to work for them too, and I did double-duty for about a year before shifting focus solely to PodCastle. Meeting everyone at a Worldcon fan event probably helped smooth the way as well.
• Jen: I was recruited to help out around the castle by Rachael K. Jones, who took over as co-editor along with Graeme Dunlop when Dave Thompson and Anna Schwind left a few years ago. I was reading for Uncanny Magazine at the time, and Rachael knew that I had been in love with PodCastle for years. For a while I slush read for both, but eventually I had to leave Uncanny as I took over more responsibilities at PodCastle, first as social media manager, then assistant editor, and eventually co-editor.
• Cherae: And I got recruited by Khaalidah and Jen at the end of 2018. I was reading for Clarkesworld at the time and Jen and Khaalidah had just published my story “Burning Season” earlier that year. It was really funny timing because I was just leaving a job and a country and trying to find the next step, so a friend had me do some soul-searching. I told her that I’d be fine as long as I was working in and with the fantasy genre. Then I got the tap on my shoulder.

INK: Can you tell us a bit more about your roles at PodCastle and about yourselves outside of PodCastle?

• Cherae: I’m one of the co-editors -- I help make final decisions on stories, find narrators, and other behind-the-scenes stuff. Sometimes I even get to host and narrate, which is pretty cool. Outside of PodCastle, I also write and teach youth creative writing in person and online. I’m also a digital nomad; in the last year, I’ve lived in Taiwan, London, Morocco, Paris, and various places in the US, and I’m always looking for a new adventure. (I would like that adventure to include sword lessons.)
• Jen: I’m one of the co-editors -- I help make decisions on stories . . . er, what Cherae said! I’m an editor by day as well. I edit and acquire books, including SFF, for ECW Press, a Canadian independent publishing house, a job I love. In another life, I was an entomologist.
• Setsu: I think the host’s job is to make way for the story and then get off stage, so my part is mostly providing context at the end, either with the author’s intent or something tangentially related to the story. That way the listener has room to process their own thoughts without being told what to think. As assistant editor, my job is to make the co-editors’ lives easier. That includes slushing, casting, training and managing the team, and doing back-end data projects as they come up. I also write, do voice work, and practice combat arts with patient horses.

INK: Is the dragon a jealous master?

• Setsu: There’s no room for masters here. Ultimately we want this to be a fruitful experience for everyone involved, whether that’s authors developing their craft, editors looking to flesh out their resumes, or listeners who are looking for something new. We’re happy to support each other, from current staff and alums, to other publications.
• Jen: The dragon totally didn’t force them to say that. *looks into the sky nervously*

INK: Several of us have submitted to Podcastle or other EA markets. When selecting stories, what kind of role does the diversity information that writers add to their cover letters play?

• Setsu: If it’s directly relevant to the story, it has a large impact; but there are subtleties. For example, a story with a blind character is slightly different from a story in which the plot hinges on the experience of being blind as a core character perspective. In both cases, editorial wants to be cognizant of ableist tropes, but we also want to give the author some breathing room when they’re bringing their own experience to bear. There’s still stuff we miss. Recruiting slush readers with marginalizations of their own will help expand editorial vision down the road.
• Jen: What Setsu said. We don't ask for demographic information on submission but we're happy when folks share it with us. We like to know when stories are coming from a place of experience. We're in strong support of OwnVoices stories and encourage submitters to share their own unique lived experiences.

INK: Do you have any advice for underrepresented writers struggling to find their way into publication?

• Cherae: As an underrepped writer myself, I read a lot and wrote a lot. I remember starting out with a goal of writing a short story every quarter of the year and printing out loads of stories from Tor.com to study. (This was before I discovered the other magazines, very long time ago.) I . . . actually didn’t read near all of those stories I printed, and I failed at the quarterly story goal. But I got as much feedback on my stories as I could, joining places like the Online Writing Workshop and making other writer friends to swap critiques with. Then I submitted, took the rejections on the chin and kept at it. Several years later, one of those quarterly stories came out at PodCastle--check out “Burning Season,” episode 519! Submitting also means looking for mags that have a diverse staff.
• Setsu: Hard agree. Reading extensively in and outside your genre will not only help your craft, it’ll give you a sense of which editorial teams are likely to understand the kinds of stories you want to tell. There are certain editors I will always submit to because I trust them to get it. With regard to community, look not just for writers that you like, but writers with whom you share similar career goals and aesthetics. It’s so important to have colleagues who support not just you as a person, but the particular direction of your work.
• Jen: Definitely look for editors and publications you might work well with, those who publish the writers that inspire you. I always also like to advocate getting out into the community, if that’s a possibility for you. If you are near a city or town with a literature scene, try to attend readings, lectures, or other events that look interesting. You’re sure to meet interesting local like-minded people who will be in the know. Alternatively, connecting with like-minded folks on social media and asking questions there can be great.

INK: When selecting stories, what do you do differently compared to a text-only publication? Can you give us any tips for when we’re deciding which story to submit to you? What might make a story work better than others in an audio market?

• Cherae: In particular, I look for an interesting narrative voice and sharp dialogue that uses rhetorical techniques well. Arresting imagery and story that is still easy to follow while listening (maybe even while mildly distracted) is also important. A great rule: read it out loud and if you stumble over the dialogue or it doesn’t sound like something that would come out of your mouth (versus your brain), something is off.
• Setsu: The text in its entirety has to be polished. Are the sentences easy to say, or do the consonants crash and tangle into each other? Are you struggling for breath? Does every sentence have the same rhythm and create a lull when you want it to be exciting? Will a casual listener appreciate your stylistic tricks or skip them? Seanan McGuire has very clean prose that’s easy to enunciate. Meg Elison’s voice is so solid it sounds like she’s there talking to you. Those elements are what we’re looking for in audio.

INK: Some of our members would love to get into slushing. Other than listening to everything you publish, how can we best prepare for the next time the dragon is recruiting new crew members for their flying castle?

• Cherae: Read a lot of published short stories and try to identify the things that they’re doing well, including the things that draw you personally as a reader. Though novels and short stories share a lot of the same DNA, they often succeed differently just because of space. Learning the different ways a story can succeed is important. Also . . . the dragon might be swooping around looking for snac -- slushers to recruit soon.
• Jen: We sometimes like to start a dialogue among our readers, having several comment on a story that's being passed up to get a conversation going and to gather different perspectives. Do this with fiction out in the world. There are no right or wrong answers when it comes to slush reading; so much of it is personal preference, and your own read of the story and its themes might be very different from another's. Really thinking about what you like and don't like about something, what works and doesn’t, and then getting an outside perspective can be really valuable. For recruiting, we love to have readers from all backgrounds and experiences. If you're applying to read at PodCastle, let us know what's unique about your perspective and what kinds of stories you identify with.
• Setsu: Pick three published stories you like, and three you don’t like. Analyze their structure, themes, and language. Did they stick the ending? In other words, did the ending answer questions or fulfill promises made at the beginning? If the characters were unlikeable, why were they still resonant or interesting? If, in the course of analyzing a story, you discover that it’s full of flaws but you still love it, why is that? Also the reverse, why does the story you don’t like still work? Who was the intended audience if it wasn’t you? Being able to see and articulate these things is a big part of the editorial process, and it gets easier with time and practice. We (and other venues) need people who can do this deep dive quickly, consistently, and fairly, week after week. As Cherae said, the dragon gets hungry.

INK: Can you tell us how your selection process works? Who does what?

• Cherae: First up, the submissions go through our slush readers. If a reader likes it, they send it up to the editorial table, where Jen, Setsu, and I can read and make our final decisions. Our readers only bump about 10% of the stories they read.
• Jen: Once Cherae and I get a hold of a passed up story, we read and discuss them. Every submissions period, we have a meeting to discuss which stories worked and which didn't work for us. Typically if one of us has strong feelings about a story and can advocate for it, we get what we want. If neither of us can muster enough enthusiasm, that usually means passing on a submission. Keep in mind, that doesn't mean we feel passed on stories are bad in any way; most things we see on the editors' desk are excellent but it's hard to account for personal taste, and passion for a piece is sometimes unexpected. I still can't predict exactly what Cherae will love!
• Setsu: Yup. Cat Rambo teaches that about 10% of short story submissions receive personal rejections, and 1% make it through to publication. If you’re getting personals, that’s really good! It means you’re on the right track. Rachael and Khaalidah used to say that in most cases, short stories fail because they start in the wrong place -- so that beginning/ending, promise made/fulfilled exercise is a concrete thing to study and practice if you feel like you’ve hit a plateau.

INK: Which story first made you fall in love with speculative fiction? Why?

• Cherae: Oh man . . . probably the first one was actually that old Sword in the Stone movie? But that one that made me jump fully into writing and stuff . . .When I was a kid, The Wheel of Time did this thing where they released The Eye of the World as a 2-book illustrated paperback and it was in my Scholastic book fair thing. That was the beginning of my end. I joined some RPG writing sites (SilkLantern, anyone?), discovered Lord of the Rings, the adult fantasy section of the library . . . all downhill from there.
• Setsu: Hard to pick one… some combination of Jim Henson, Elfquest, and Red Sonya. It was neat to see how the same narrative sharpened or expanded in different formats, such as the Neverending Story adaptations, the novelization of Willow, and the art/lore book for The Dark Crystal -- to say nothing of ttrpg books and the infinite retellings of fairy tales and myths for a modern context. I like when the same story expresses itself as watercolor, or dolls, or a score (numerical or musical). These levels of abstraction suggest spec, even with stories that aren’t necessarily speculative. That’s what grabs my attention.
• Jen: I think for me it was probably video games. I used to play those old Sierra adventure games. King's Quest, Space Quest. My favorite was Quest for Glory. I loved the whimsical humor and jumping into a new fantasy setting every game, and I loved being able to be the hero! Eventually I found that most of the literature I consumed was in the genre too.

INK: Are there books you read again and again? What about them makes them so special?

• Setsu: Pratchett’s Discworld books because I get something new out of them each time. Also Zen Guitar by Philip Toshio Sudo, and the War of Art by Steven Pressfield, because they’re comforting when I feel stuck.
• Jen: I'm not one to read books again. There's just so much out there I haven't read yet! That said, I think I've reread The Goblin Emperor at least four times since it came out, and that was just a few years ago.
• Cherae: I also don’t read books again (very different from when I was a kid). I do read the books I teach multiple times. A couple that I have doubled (tripled?) up on . . . The Traitor Baru Cormorant by Seth Dickinson is something that I’ve been drawn back to again and again because I want to keep learning from it. Not to mention the exquisite construction of heartbreak. Also Best Served Cold, by Joe Abercrombie. I would also like to go back to The Fifth Season by N.K. Jemisin.

INK: What is the most influential lesson you learned through your work for PodCastle? How does it affect you as a writer and a reader?

• • Jen: So I'm not actually much of a writer. I edit full time for PodCastle and ECW, but now as a reader, I feel like an old salt. It's hard as an editor not to get a little bit jaded about the things you read because stories, themes, plot elements, character tropes, and the like tend to come up again and again. So in some ways, I think I read with a little less patience. I’m more likely to put something down if it’s not working for me. That said, one of the most important things I’ve learned is that when something is done right -- when told with a fresh perspective and the right voice -- you can take even the most overdone story elements and make them into something brilliant.
  • Cherae: I’m developing the writing professional callous. You always read that rejections aren’t personal but it’s hard to really understand that until you’re behind the table. I’ve rejected colleagues, friends, idols . . . and then we move on to the next story, the next coffee date. Best way to handle it is to be courteous, always.
  • Setsu: Through collaborating at PodCastle and as part of Escape Artists at large, my perspective has shifted from “why is this bad” to “who is this for?” In other words, how can one identify what this audience wants and give it to them? Stay curious about market shifts, what’s working, and why. Most of all, find the balance between what’s personally and commercially sustainable. This is a job, and sometimes the job won’t love you back, even when it’s the dream job.

INK: Can you still read stories without picking them apart and analysing them?

• • Cherae: Hehhhh, sometimes. It’s easier for me with short stories than with novels. Short stories are also easier for me to give a second, more analytical read.
  • Setsu: Only if I haven’t heard anyone else’s opinion. Otherwise I fixate on target audience rather than enjoying it for what it is.
  • Jen: I can turn my editorial brain off to a degree and just enjoy a story despite some issues. I think I need that break sometimes and the self-permission to just enjoy a story for what it is and not what I’d make it into. Reading for fun is a relief.

INK: When you have to choose between two stories, one origi