Being pulled into other people's framing (1/2)

@selfhelp4trolls · 2025-11-03 06:10 · Cross Culture

As I get older I desire human interaction less and less. While many people just take these kinds of phenomena as "par for the course" I don't leave things at face value "just because that's how it goes". I want to know why.

And so as I often do, I audit myself. What is it about myself that has changed so that I don't desire interactions as much. Yes, I am busy, but I've always been busy to some extent. Yes, I am more focused on what I want to do with my life and feel like I have less time to accomplish things than before. That is a big reason.

I could probably leave it at that, but as I never like to leave any stone unturned, I dig deeper.

Is there some level of disappointment in my fellow humans? Well I'd be lying if I said there wasn't.

Is there some kind of interaction I am avoiding? Yes, absolutely.

What kind might that be?

I am not sure how much others relate, but I feel quite certain there are at least some people who consider themselves introverts who feel this way.

I am tired of having the terms of the conversation set by other people without any say. I also don't want to fight to beat their framing with my own. I am tired of having someone else's "common sense" be treated as my own common sense and I don't want every conversation to turn into a debate either.

Framing is a very very powerful thing, and it's a hard one to talk about because it's usually formless. It's not the words we speak but the things that our words imply.

The most obvious form of this is when you assume the other person has the same beliefs, habits, or opinions as you, or the same beliefs, habits, or opinions whatever stereotype you have of them.

“You are Italian so you MUST like pasta!” That may be one of the statistically most accurate stereotypes to make, but still, it must be annoying for an Italian who doesn't like pasta to constantly have to explain himself, and there MUST be at least a few Italians who don't like pasta and more who like it but no more than the average person from another country who has eaten it in their life.

“You are always so quiet, you don’t have to be so shy”, except maybe they aren’t shy, maybe they are enjoying the moment without the need to fill it with words and ideas. Not everyone enjoys things the same way.

Another is assigning judgement to someone and assuming other people assign the same judgement. I often hear people talk about good people and bad people, and the way they would describe a "bad person" or a "good person" is drastically different from how I might.

What is bad in reference to? Is it god? Is it the law? Is it other's self sovereignty? Is it nature?

The answer to this depends on your values and worldview, and even in a so-called homogenous society, nothing is truly homogenous. Even if the state decides that something should be illegal, your religion may lead you to feel differently. And if the state adopts a religion, you will never be able to force people to share the same beliefs. (Democracy doesn't solve this paradigm, although it aims to reduce it.)

If you are thinking in terms of self sovereignty, no religion or law can take precedence over your freedom to live your life the way you want to live it unless you are negatively influencing those around you, and what constitutes a negative influence is a very grey area, in fact it's the whole reason we try to create laws in the first place.

So by setting good and bad in stone, you are forcing people to see the world the way you see it. I don't care how good your god or justice system is, I can't get behind that.

Creating a space or community for people with the same values is somethign I fully support. Forcing anyone to be a part of that community is not. And I personally prefer more diverse perspectives alrhough I do like having some friends who see things my way.

This is why I don't speak in absolutes in conversation. When I'm writing, I may to some extent, just to express my own perspective without constantly justifying ever little thing over and over again as "just my perspective". It's implied.

But when I speak to someone who I know sees things differently, or who I even suspect of seeing things vastly different from myself, I try not to make such absolute judgement calls. I am not often met with the same courtesy. This is why I'm tired.

Example: If someone dies, it's generally seen as a bad thing, but even that is an assumption I don't want to make.

What if they were suffering and now they can finally rest? What if they lived a fulfilled life and were ready to go? What if they hated life and wanted to die? What if they are somewhere better now? (whether that is heaven or nothingness!)

What if the person I'm talking to isn't bothered by death, the way many people are? What if it's just a transition to them? What if they can feel the spirit of that person with them and feel more joy for having that person in their life than sadness over something that is inevitable.

I allow space for such perspectives.

In some ways i allow more space for these perspectives than the typical ideas that “death is regrettable” because they are often forced to play along with the typical narratives.

I don't assume someone is a bad person for smoking marijuana, even if it's illegal in their country. I don't look down on someone who drinks alcohol in a country that forbids it. I don't look down on someone who cuts ties with their family or gets a divorce because I don't know the full context.

I don't even expect people to not fuck up sometimes. Sometimes you do mess up and if you try to make up for it, why should I condemn you forever? What good does that do anyone?

More controversial examples incoming:

In American society, child labor is considered something pretty much despicable. But from my perspective forcing kids to sit in a chair and study things that don't relate to their lives is equally despicable. And in some countries, I see kids working at their parents shops and helping the family function well. I don't see that as a bad thing outright.

Personally, I think the problem is when the kid is not given a choice, or when that kid is pressured into feeling like they don't have a choice, or when their lack of experience or a bad economy is used to take advantage of kids by making them dependent.

I have many controversial opinions, but my world view is one that prioritizes personal freedom in almost every situation. We can and probably should discuss what personal freedoms tend to or could potentially impose on other people's freedoms, but I tend to be quite flexible here. We will inevitably make people sad or uncomfortable so I don't believe in regulating such things.

This is not an easy thing to agree on, which is precisely why I think we should be as open minded as we can be, and I try to live by that.

Sometimes I make my own judgment calls about what I want and the world I want to live in, but I can't force others to agree with me and I don't want to be pressured by others so I won't pressure others. If it's something that directly and severely hurts, violates or debilitates another person, I don't have any qualms about making that judgement call, not for the sake of judgement but because it can reduce unnecessary suffering.

Then there are things that are more like preferences that disguise themselves as moral arguments, or things I see as unhealthy that I don't want around me, but I don't think it's my right to prevent others from engaging in them.

This post is set up to be way longer than I intended so I will break it into two parts. I'll share part 2 tomorrow, starting with some controversial takes!

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